[foaf-protocols] First WebID Teleconference minutes (July 27th 2010)
kidehen at openlinksw.com
Tue Aug 3 00:07:46 CEST 2010
Seth Russell wrote:
> Henry, i resent your tone here. I wasn't born yesterday, i have been
> hanging around watching the W3C specification process for a long time
> and i am quite familiar with the function of specification on the
> internet. That said, i will address the only thing you said which
> does not just sound to me like a rationalization to kick an issue
> down the road.
> > Even if we wrote it down, why would people follow it?
> Engineers and webmasters go to the specification all the time to
> figure out what to do. If they cannot find any place where it is
> written down, then usually they turn to examples of how it is being
> done in practice. Well now, if those engineers and webmasters do
> that, what do they find in this case? Most of the examples of WebIDs
> out there now do you return any human readable profile if you hit them
> with your browser. Your own WebID is a fine example of the way to do
> it. But mine, which i got from openlink is not ... it returns JSON.
> How are we to change the behavior of the engineers and webmasters if
> we don't even have the courage to write down how we intend it to be done?
You are losing me here.
How on earth does the WebID from <http://kingsley.idehen.net> give you
JSON? Put your WebID in the Address bar of any browser and you will get
an HTML representation of your Profile (with RDFa embedded). Negotiate
RDF/XML, N3, Turtle, JSON, OData etc.. and you will get those
What do you think your WebID is? Ditto your Structured Profile Page URL?
Ditto your OpenID URL?
If you want, simply go to: https://id.myopenlink.net/ods and open a new
account. The moment you open an account you have a WebID (URL based Name
Reference) and a Profile Document (conventional URL Address Reference).
I am astounded how everything we put out can be so confusing. You can
also manage your profile via:
Please confirm that you know JSON isn't our human readable option when
HTML+RDFa is the default you get when placing an ODS WebID in your
Browser's address bar.
Here are my details:
Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this
Profile Document URL:
http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen (you can negotiate
a variety of representations for this resource but browsers will get
HTML+RDFa since the ask for HTML by default)
OpenID URL: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen .
The above has been so for a number of years now. You will get the same
via: http://id.myopenlink.net/ods (or the other profile manager
> Seth Russell
> Podcasting: tagtalking.net <http://tagtalking.net>
> Facebook ing: facebook.com/russell.seth <http://facebook.com/russell.seth>
> Twitter ing: twitter.com/SethRussell <http://twitter.com/SethRussell>
> Blogging: fastblogit.com/seth/ <http://fastblogit.com/seth/>
> Catalog selling: www.speaktomecatalog.com
> Google profile: google.com/profiles/russell.seth
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Henry Story <henry.story at gmail.com
> <mailto:henry.story at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 2 Aug 2010, at 20:10, Seth Russell wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Henry Story
> <henry.story at gmail.com <mailto:henry.story at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> On 2 Aug 2010, at 18:45, Nathan wrote:
> >>> I really like that sentence - perfect even imho.
> >>> 'MUST have a Machine and Human readable representation of a
> >>> profile document'
> >> "MUST have a representation of an RDF graph in a machine readable
> >> representation. See the section on representations for more
> about this."
> >> You cannot force a Human readable representation in the spec.
> That is again
> >> a pragmatic issue.
> > Why not?
> Because we are in the process of describing the WebID protocol,
> not how to
> make people like your site. In engineering, and in many other
> fields of human
> endeavor, small is beautiful. Do one thing, and do it well.
> > If you leave this open, then it is less likely to happen in the
> > way most of us want it to happen.
> Here you are attributing to specifications some magic power they
> don't have.
> Even if we wrote it down, why would people follow it?
> > If it doesn't happen, then WebIDs will
> > be less valuable and less useful. Pepole and webmasters will
> have far
> > less motive to go the extra mile to get them, or agents accept
> or provide
> > them.
> If those people need a spec to motivate them, then we should give
> up! I have never heard of specs motivating anyone. They are useful
> for guidance.
> Notice all our implementations function without a spec!
> > Then you are certainly would be right, "it will be difficult for
> > people to understand what is going on and takeup will be
> slow". Your
> > also right that this a pragmatic issue. Where is it written
> in stone
> > that practical issues cannot be decided by specification?
> > Seth
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