[foaf-protocols] webid-linked claim verification?
russell.seth at gmail.com
Thu Aug 26 21:09:25 CEST 2010
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen at openlinksw.com>wrote:
> On 8/26/10 11:25 AM, Seth Russell wrote:
> Well, actually, as a website owner, i don't want to be discerning
> anything. All i really want to do is just send messages to my clients.
> Yes, but wouldn't it be even better if you sent the message via their
> preferred channel? Today, we have email, Twitter DMs, LinkedIn, Jabber,
> Skype etc.. to name a few.
Yes, totally, totally, but I don't grock the "you" part, kemosabe! I want
to just send the message to the library and *it* will send the message in
the client's preferred protocol and address. I don't know how to do all of
that comminicating and keep my programming up to date as this system evolves
rapidly over time. It would be impractical to suppose that anybody will,
except perhaps the largest enterprises who can afford to hire dozens of
programmers. But you developers of libraries can compete for who can
provide the best communication channel for us.
> I want all that discerning to be out of my sight and concern and totally
> under the client's control.
> So the client prefers Skype at a certain point in the day, week, month
> etc.. And this is when you want to communicate, what happens? They've
> indicated thir preferred mechanism, but its in their data space somewhere
> (but discoverable via the graph that is the data space).
> That is my real point here. And, when you think about it, if the
> libraries take the approach of factoring all that discerning into the
> control of the client and just let the website send (and perhaps recieve)
> messages from the client, then all that magic we want can evolve in the
> libraries and my web development code can be left alone. Me thinks this is
> a path to a faster evolution for all those wonderful WebID benefits that are
> being touted.
> This is just one of those things that works best via a deliverable. When I
> am ready I'll just show it. This sometimes works better re. different routes
> to the same destination :-)
Hmmm.... i can hardly wait ...
> Seth Russell
> Podcasting: tagtalking.net
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> Twitter ing: twitter.com/SethRussell
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> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:01 AM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen at openlinksw.com>wrote:
>> On 8/26/10 8:31 AM, Seth Russell wrote:
>> Dan Brickley said: If we assume the possibility of a simple Web app that
>> allows users to demonstrate simultaneous control over multiple accounts, the
>> natural next question is re what it does with that info.
>> Well perhaps answering that question: one of the biggest use cases for
>> identity on the web is where some website, say a shopping site, wants to
>> know who a person is ** so that they can communicate with that person **.
>> All we, the website owners, really want is a open source library given to us
>> with a function to call which would return some identity string to store in
>> our local database. When we need to send a message back to the person all
>> we really want to do is to send a message referencing that identity string.
>> The library takes it from there, and we, the site owners, are no longer
>> concerned with details like verifying email addresses, twitter accounts, or
>> even in which protocol the client prefers to get their messages.
>> I really appreciate Dan's call for a verification of claims and hope that
>> it will inevitably dove tail into that library i so desperately need but
>> can't write myself.
>> Not only can you figure out how to communicate with them. You can discern
>> their preferred communication mechanism. You could even discern their
>> location and bike something over to them or keep the store open a little
>> longer (clicks and mortar scenario with some GoodRelations Linked Data
>> sprinkled in).
>> Seth Russell
>> Podcasting: tagtalking.net
>> Facebook ing: facebook.com/russell.seth
>> Twitter ing: twitter.com/SethRussell
>> Blogging: fastblogit.com/seth/
>> Catalog selling: www.speaktomecatalog.com
>> Google profile: google.com/profiles/russell.seth
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Dan Brickley <danbri at danbri.org> wrote:
>>> Hi folks
>>> Has anyone here built a webapp that shows verification of simple
>>> identity-relevant claims? This idea is not tightly coupled to WebID
>>> but would help ground WebIDs (or equally self-hosted OpenIDs) in other
>>> identifying information.
>>> e.g. 1.) you go along, log in with a webid cert, and select "verify an
>>> email address"; it sends you some generated token by email, with a
>>> URL; you get that mail, follow the link, log in again with webid if
>>> needed [eg. the mail might arrive tommorrow], ... after which you've
>>> established some evidence that whoever controls that webid also
>>> controls (for now) that mailbox.
>>> e.g. 2.) you go along, log in with a webid cert, and select "verify a
>>> Web account", and choose a provider from a list of service providers
>>> who offer OpenID, OAuth and/or proprietary API ways of allowing
>>> someone to demonstrate control over an account. For OpenID you should
>>> also have the ability to type in an arbitrary OpenID-enabled URL. So
>>> here you might verify that you control http://twitter.com/example
>>> [this would use OAuth], or a Facebook account.
>>> e.g. 3.) or you login with webid again, and select "verify a Chat
>>> account"; selecting from MSN, Yahoo, AIM, or Jabber/XMPP. Actually
>>> these things are increasingly linked to general Web profiles, but at
>>> least Jabber/XMPP would be particularly interesting. So you'd type in
>>> your chat address, let's say johnsmith at gmail.com for a Google Talk
>>> one, but these can also be self-hosted XMPP servers eg.
>>> danbri at foaf.tv. The service would send a roster join request to that
>>> user, and if accepted, could send a click-to-verify link much as with
>>> the email example.
>>> e.g. 4.) More stuff! There are no natural limits to the kinds of
>>> claims that could be verified, or the methods applied. This is the
>>> charm and the burden of the Semantic Web; it's completely general.
>>> But fact checking is hard, so there is value in picking off the more
>>> mechanisable pieces; mobile phone / SMS numbers could be a natural
>>> next step.
>>> There are a lot of 'claim graph analytics' you can do with this sort
>>> of data, especially when linked with other social Web data (quite
>>> naturally in named graphs, when managed in SPARQL). This is the same
>>> kind of machinery offered by http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/
>>> ... although SGAPI deals more with public crawlable assertions. If we
>>> assume the possibility of a simple Web app that allows users to
>>> demonstrate simultaneous control over multiple accounts, the natural
>>> next question is re what it does with that info. Some of it could be
>>> simply published in public (signed, date stamped etc.) or made
>>> available over some public lookup API.
>>> eg. it could just emit a 'verified claims' file with simple statements,
>>> <http://example.com/johnsmith#me> a :Person; :account
>>> <http://twitter.example.com/johnsmith>; :account
>>> <http://facebook.example.com/jsmith/> ...
>>> Such info could be used as a grounding for more trust, eg. my blog
>>> comments system could allow webid-based commenting, and auto-accept
>>> posts that came from people whose twitter or facebook IDs I know, even
>>> if I've not seen their webid before. Some such tool seems to me worth
>>> building, both to show that these service activities will still exist
>>> in a WebID world, they're just not core duties of an identity
>>> provider. But also to counter some of the concerns I've seen raised
>>> about self-asserted ID. Is there anything out there like this
>>> foaf-protocols mailing list
>>> foaf-protocols at lists.foaf-project.org
>> foaf-protocols mailing listfoaf-protocols at lists.foaf-project.orghttp://lists.foaf-project.org/mailman/listinfo/foaf-protocols
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> President & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
>> foaf-protocols mailing list
>> foaf-protocols at lists.foaf-project.org
> Kingsley Idehen
> President & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
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