[foaf-protocols] WebID - mandated syntax or market solution? was WebID Incubator Charter draft

Kingsley Idehen kidehen at openlinksw.com
Sat Dec 18 23:32:04 CET 2010


On 12/18/10 5:29 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 12/18/10 5:08 PM, Nathan wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> WebID is web-oriented (hence the name) however many (all?) of those
>> involved so far have viewed WebID as being pivotal to many different
>> scenarios and software applications, the typical Browser being just one
>> of those applications, for instance Joe has his mercurial repo's WebID
>> enabled, Melvin has exposed several services such as file sharing, and I
>>    give my all my web applications their own WebID for authentication 
>> and
>> identification. Tht's just scratching the surface of what's possible
>> with WebID, and the many scenarios people have already listed that they
>> want to apply WebID to.
>>
>> I think what Henry simply meant was, not to constrain WebID to the
>> browsers, but rather that WebID support should be implemented by the
>> browsers, natively, rather than by third party extension or some form of
>> domain specific interface.
>
> Eventually, we're going to have a NetID (re. Internet of Things), then 
> AgentIDs cos Internet and Web won't matter. But for now, we need to 
> start somewhere.  The ubiquitous WWW ecosystem is a natural starting 
> point. It will expand, naturally to the Human Network at large :-)

Note to self: should have been Ubiquitous Smart Agent Network at large :-)

Links:

1. http://www.jfsowa.com/ontology/agents.htm - Agents .


Kingsley
>
>
> Kingsley
>> Best,
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> peter williams wrote:
>>> I think the browser-centric "world view" is what is at issue here.
>>>
>>> At least 50% of my web usage is RSS, using outlook as the RSS 
>>> reader. The UI metaphors of the mosaic-era browser are just not part 
>>> of my world view... My world view tends to be cert oriented (wot a 
>>> surprise); needing certs on email, certs in HTML emails, certs on 
>>> code downloaded from HTML emails, and certs in semweb-light RSS 
>>> meandering to all have a consistent projection - so I can maintain 
>>> control over my belief models. Remember, 50% of what you read on the 
>>> web is just crap; much of it deliberate crap. But, that’s the world 
>>> we live in, where everyone and his dog has an opinion on everything.
>>>
>>> Webids have to be bigger than the browser; and not just in some 
>>> backroom server-server protocol flow. Mainstream non-mosaic browser 
>>> uses of webids have to be a first-class citizens here, are NOT 
>>> operating under some historical All-American regime where you are 
>>> human (but not emancipated), then emancipated (but not a citizen), 
>>> then  a citizen (but you have to bow your head), ...
>>>
>>> I recognize that this is web-blasphemy, to even challenge the mosaic 
>>> legacy. OpenID is leading this challenge (as is cardspace), as its 
>>> discarding the browser metaphor. It’s the mosaic-era browser model 
>>> that made OpenID fail.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: foaf-protocols-bounces at lists.foaf-project.org 
>>> [mailto:foaf-protocols-bounces at lists.foaf-project.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Henry Story
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:11 AM
>>> To: Jiří Procházka
>>> Cc: foaf-protocols at lists.foaf-project.org
>>> Subject: Re: [foaf-protocols] WebID - mandated syntax or market 
>>> solution? was WebID Incubator Charter draft
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Dec 2010, at 00:53, Jiří Procházka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you agree the "WebID" name could be used, besides as the protocol
>>>> name, for something like a certificate (think
>>>> http://validator.w3.org/docs/help.html#icon) which guarantees to an
>>>> end user the software/service is usable in some way? (when it is not
>>>> offline of course)
>>> It won't happen quite like that. It will probably be integrated into 
>>> the browsers themselves. See some of the issues here
>>> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=29784
>>>
>>>
>>>> Do you agree there are higher demands on reliability of protocols then
>>>> anything else?
>>> In some ways it is not sure that this is a protocol either, btw.
>>> I don't exactly know what WebID is. The protocol is already defined, 
>>> as TLS.  HTTP is a protcol and is already defined.
>>> Perhaps what we are defining is a proof procedure, in which case it 
>>> is not surprising that we are at the level of logic.
>>> This is something the XG should investigate.
>>>
>>>> Do you think if for example with DNS protocol while answering your
>>>> query each participating nameserver could return "syntax not
>>>> understood" error returning it to you as final answer would be good?
>>> Putting a public key in the DNS is a very different issue. DNS does 
>>> not have content negotiation.
>>>
>>>> Please name some protocols which do this (syntax conneg - they are
>>>> just defined as logic - the model, like you wish).
>>> It's not because something is new that it cannot be done.
>>>
>>> But anyway, there is one: the web. The Web allows you to return 
>>> different representations for the same resource. The same resource 
>>> can return jpeg, gif,... It was designed like that for precisely the 
>>> reason of allowing flexibility and growth.
>>>
>>> In any case all this is moot. We interoperable implementations in 
>>> every programming language that work with at least 2 mime types. 
>>> RDF/XML and RDFa, and some even with turtle.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Social Web Architect
>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>
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>>>
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>
>


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
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